Schillerinstitute. Enero 2014. Poderes occidentales tras el golpe de estado nancy en Ucrania.

[skan]

Huir?¿dónde?...aaaa a Rusia....que curioso. pilinguin quiso hacer de Yanucivich otro Lukashenko, pero la nación Cosaca no se lo permitió.
si..si Golpe de Estado+Farloponski+Nazis
me lo dijo pilinguin y RT...

Y envenenó a Yushenko en 2004

 

[skan]

Quien si dio un golpe de estado en Rusia es pilinguin, pero no veo a los amarusos pidiendo que se invada Rusia por ello.

 

[Artedi]

Lea la letra de la Canción Nacional de Ucrania...
"somos la Nación Cosaca" 1:19

PD: Este himno data de 1917 por la República Popular Ucraniana, cuando Ucrania se INDEPENDIZÓ después de la Guerra de Independencia, luego llegaron los Bolcheviques y ...ya sabe(si si, Putín me dijo que Ucrania fue creada por Lenin, si, si, me lo dijo pilinguin).
..haber estudiado antes de opinar digo yo..

Curiosamente, cuando hablas con los "superucranianos" de Galitzia, Podolia, etc. te dicen que ellos de cosacos nada, y que bueno, lo del himno sí, pero no. En realidad, son más (muchísimo más!) cosacos los de Donetsk, Lugansk y la recientemente ocupada Zaporozhia, que ellos.

 

[arriondas]

Curiosamente, cuando hablas con los "superucranianos" de Galitzia, Podolia, etc. te dicen que ellos de cosacos nada, y que bueno, lo del himno sí, pero no. En realidad, son más (muchísimo más!) cosacos los de Donetsk, Lugansk y la recientemente ocupada Zaporozhia, que ellos.

Y durante la rebelión de Bogdan Khmelnitsky, los antepasados de esos "superucranianos"... lucharon contra los cosacos, en las filas del ejército polaco. El príncipe Jeremi Wisniowiecki, apodado "el martillo de los cosacos", era ruteno, descendiente de los rurikidas. En su día compratí este fragmento del historiador Orest Subtelny:

The attractive Polish model of the privileged nobleman exerted a powerful assimilatory influence on the Ukrainian nobility. And the obvious superiority of its culture intensified the appeal of all things Polish. The Jesuits, sure of their victory over Protestantism, now focused their attention on the "schismatics," as they called the Orthodox. Soon after 1569, they moved into Ukraine, establishing collegiums in Iaroslav, Lviv, Kamianets, Bar, Lutsk, Vinnytsia, and Kiev. Their best polemicist, most notably the brilliant Piotr Skarga, castigated the alleged doctrinal fallacies and the cultural backwardness of the Orthodox in sermons and open debates. In his famous work "The Unity of God's Church," Skarga argued that the state of Orthodoxy was so helpless that its adherents' only alternative was union with Rome. "The Greeks fooled you, O Ruthenian people," Skarga wrote, "for in giving you the Holy Faith, they did not give you the Greek language, forcing you to use the Slavonic tongue so that you could never attain true understanding and learning… for one can never attain learning by means of the Slavonic language"

For status conscious Ukrainian noblemen - and nobles are by definition status conscious - their association with a religion and culture that was considered to be inferior was extremely galling. As a result, they abandoned the faith of their forefathers in droves and embraced Catholicism along with the Polish language and culture. In 1612, in a mournful work entitled "Trenos or the Lament of the Holy Eastern Church." A leading Orthodox churchman, Meletii Smortrytsky, bemoaned the loss to Rus' and Orthodoxy of its leading families: "Where are the priceless jewels of [Orthodoxy's] crown, such famous families of Ruthenian princes as the Slutsky, Zaslavsky, Zbarazky, Vyshnevetsky, Sangushsky, Chartorysky, Pronsky, Ruzhynsky, Solomyretsky, Holovchynsky, Koropynsky, Masalsky, Horsky, Sokolynsky, Lukomsky, Ruzyna, and others without number? Where are those who surrounded them… the wellborn, glorious, brave, strong, and ancient houses of the Ruthenian nation who were renowned throughout the world for their high repute, power, and bravery?" The question was obviously rhetorical, for it was common knowledge that all of these illustrious magnate families had joined the Catholic Polish camp.

An insight into one of the ways in which the process of assimilation worked was provided by the Polish archbishop of Lviv, Prucznicki, himself a descendant of a Ukrainian family: "When it happened that a wealthy young lady or a rich widow became available then the Polish kings would dispatch their Polish noblemen to Rus' and help them [to arrange a good marriage] by means of their influence; as these nobles married, they inundated Rus' and introduced the proper, Roman Catholic faith. Conscientious priests saw to the rest, for soon even the magnates in Rus' abandoned the Greek schism and joined the Roman church." Of the remaining Ukrainian Orthodox magnates, only few, notably those who began their careers before 1569, when the Ukrainians were still a potent political and cultural force in the Grand Principality, remained true to the old faith. Traditional ways still survived among pockets of poor gentry, which lived in isolated areas, far from the centers of Polish culture. However, they were politically, socially, and economically too weak to stem the process of Polonization.

One cannot exaggerate the profound implications that the loss of their elite had for the Ukrainians. In the Hierarchically structured societies of early modern Europe, for a people to be without a nobility was tantamount to being a body without a head. It meant that Ukrainians were left without the class that normally provided political leadership and purpose, patronized culture and education, supported the church, and endowed a society with a sense of ethnopolitical identity. With the spread of Polonization among much of the Ukrainian nobility, Orthodoxy, as well as the Ukrainian language and customs, became associated primarily with the lower classes. As such they became the objects of scorn in the eyes of the Polish establishment in the commonwealth. Henceforth, ambitious, talented Ukrainian youths would constantly be forced to choose between loyalty to their own people and traditions and assimilation into the dominant culture and society. Usually they opted for the latter. Consequently, the problem of a Ukrainian elite, or rather, the lack of one, now emerged as yet another of the central and recurrent themes in Ukrainian history.

Orest Subtelny, Ukraine. A History, Toronto

La gloriosa nación cosaca y tal...

 

[Trabajar para el enemigo]

A ver Niñato, eso de la Propaganda cuela para ti y los pro-rusoso que ni siquiera conocen Ucrania
Lee bien, conozco el país , hablo su idioma, conozco su cruel historia de relación con Rusia y parte de mi familia viene de Ucrania ¿propaganda?¿a mi?. Como dato le cuento que estuve en Kiev en Junio de 2017, para el "día de Europa", ese día además se firmó un acuerdo migratorio con la UE, las calles de Kiev estaban llenas de gente con banderas de Ucrania y la UE ¿Usted estuvo?. Esxel pueblo de Ucrania, cono raz{on o no, el queire ser UE y sacarse a los Rusos de encima.

Yo a los troles Rusos los detecto al vuelo, y cuando ya les comento mis fuertes conexiones con el país quedan en shock, a mi no me cuentan cuentos.

Lo del famoso "Golpe de Estado", también déjeme comentarle que tengo casi 60 años y vivo en el Cono Sur de América, así que le puedo dar un Doctorado de qué es un Golpe de Estado, y qué una Revuelta popular para sacar a un presidente que TRAICIONA su Pueblo. Por cierto, Usted y todos los pro-rusos "omiten" que el 2020 hubo elecciones democráticas que gano Zelenski.

Las razones del Maidán ya se las expliqué, en tono burlesco y extremo haciendo ver lo ridículo de los argumentos pro-rusos, Usted LAS SABE pero NO le conviene
pilinguin quería hacer de Yanucovich otro Liukashenko, pero el Pueblo Cosaco le dijo NO.
... propada...si ... a mi, claro...

Los que hacen propaganda son las partes interesadas. Y usted es parte interesada, por lo que usted mismo cuenta. Yo no, por ejemplo.

Ya que conoce tanto Ucrania, háblenos de la historia de Ucrania, qué partes son Ucrania y qué partes no.

 

[derepen]

Entonces según ese texto, ¿Vamos a morir todos bajo una explosión termonuclear?

 

[naburiano]

A ver Niñato, eso de la Propaganda cuela para ti y los pro-rusoso que ni siquiera conocen Ucrania
Lee bien, conozco el país , hablo su idioma, conozco su cruel historia de relación con Rusia y parte de mi familia viene de Ucrania ¿propaganda?¿a mi?. Como dato le cuento que estuve en Kiev en Junio de 2017, para el "día de Europa", ese día además se firmó un acuerdo migratorio con la UE, las calles de Kiev estaban llenas de gente con banderas de Ucrania y la UE ¿Usted estuvo?. Esxel pueblo de Ucrania, cono raz{on o no, el queire ser UE y sacarse a los Rusos de encima.

Yo a los troles Rusos los detecto al vuelo, y cuando ya les comento mis fuertes conexiones con el país quedan en shock, a mi no me cuentan cuentos.

Lo del famoso "Golpe de Estado", también déjeme comentarle que tengo casi 60 años y vivo en el Cono Sur de América, así que le puedo dar un Doctorado de qué es un Golpe de Estado, y qué una Revuelta popular para sacar a un presidente que TRAICIONA su Pueblo. Por cierto, Usted y todos los pro-rusos "omiten" que el 2020 hubo elecciones democráticas que gano Zelenski.

Las razones del Maidán ya se las expliqué, en tono burlesco y extremo haciendo ver lo ridículo de los argumentos pro-rusos, Usted LAS SABE pero NO le conviene
pilinguin quería hacer de Yanucovich otro Liukashenko, pero el Pueblo Cosaco le dijo NO.
... propada...si ... a mi, claro...

Menudo troll, tú no conoces nada de Ucrania, además sigues usando falacias del hombre de paja.

 

[kerevienteya]

Y durante la rebelión de Bogdan Khmelnitsky, los antepasados de esos "superucranianos"... lucharon contra los cosacos, en las filas del ejército polaco. El príncipe Jeremi Wisniowiecki, apodado "el martillo de los cosacos", era ruteno, descendiente de los rurikidas. En su día compratí este fragmento del historiador Orest Subtelny:

The attractive Polish model of the privileged nobleman exerted a powerful assimilatory influence on the Ukrainian nobility. And the obvious superiority of its culture intensified the appeal of all things Polish. The Jesuits, sure of their victory over Protestantism, now focused their attention on the "schismatics," as they called the Orthodox. Soon after 1569, they moved into Ukraine, establishing collegiums in Iaroslav, Lviv, Kamianets, Bar, Lutsk, Vinnytsia, and Kiev. Their best polemicist, most notably the brilliant Piotr Skarga, castigated the alleged doctrinal fallacies and the cultural backwardness of the Orthodox in sermons and open debates. In his famous work "The Unity of God's Church," Skarga argued that the state of Orthodoxy was so helpless that its adherents' only alternative was union with Rome. "The Greeks fooled you, O Ruthenian people," Skarga wrote, "for in giving you the Holy Faith, they did not give you the Greek language, forcing you to use the Slavonic tongue so that you could never attain true understanding and learning… for one can never attain learning by means of the Slavonic language"

For status conscious Ukrainian noblemen - and nobles are by definition status conscious - their association with a religion and culture that was considered to be inferior was extremely galling. As a result, they abandoned the faith of their forefathers in droves and embraced Catholicism along with the Polish language and culture. In 1612, in a mournful work entitled "Trenos or the Lament of the Holy Eastern Church." A leading Orthodox churchman, Meletii Smortrytsky, bemoaned the loss to Rus' and Orthodoxy of its leading families: "Where are the priceless jewels of [Orthodoxy's] crown, such famous families of Ruthenian princes as the Slutsky, Zaslavsky, Zbarazky, Vyshnevetsky, Sangushsky, Chartorysky, Pronsky, Ruzhynsky, Solomyretsky, Holovchynsky, Koropynsky, Masalsky, Horsky, Sokolynsky, Lukomsky, Ruzyna, and others without number? Where are those who surrounded them… the wellborn, glorious, brave, strong, and ancient houses of the Ruthenian nation who were renowned throughout the world for their high repute, power, and bravery?" The question was obviously rhetorical, for it was common knowledge that all of these illustrious magnate families had joined the Catholic Polish camp.

An insight into one of the ways in which the process of assimilation worked was provided by the Polish archbishop of Lviv, Prucznicki, himself a descendant of a Ukrainian family: "When it happened that a wealthy young lady or a rich widow became available then the Polish kings would dispatch their Polish noblemen to Rus' and help them [to arrange a good marriage] by means of their influence; as these nobles married, they inundated Rus' and introduced the proper, Roman Catholic faith. Conscientious priests saw to the rest, for soon even the magnates in Rus' abandoned the Greek schism and joined the Roman church." Of the remaining Ukrainian Orthodox magnates, only few, notably those who began their careers before 1569, when the Ukrainians were still a potent political and cultural force in the Grand Principality, remained true to the old faith. Traditional ways still survived among pockets of poor gentry, which lived in isolated areas, far from the centers of Polish culture. However, they were politically, socially, and economically too weak to stem the process of Polonization.

One cannot exaggerate the profound implications that the loss of their elite had for the Ukrainians. In the Hierarchically structured societies of early modern Europe, for a people to be without a nobility was tantamount to being a body without a head. It meant that Ukrainians were left without the class that normally provided political leadership and purpose, patronized culture and education, supported the church, and endowed a society with a sense of ethnopolitical identity. With the spread of Polonization among much of the Ukrainian nobility, Orthodoxy, as well as the Ukrainian language and customs, became associated primarily with the lower classes. As such they became the objects of scorn in the eyes of the Polish establishment in the commonwealth. Henceforth, ambitious, talented Ukrainian youths would constantly be forced to choose between loyalty to their own people and traditions and assimilation into the dominant culture and society. Usually they opted for the latter. Consequently, the problem of a Ukrainian elite, or rather, the lack of one, now emerged as yet another of the central and recurrent themes in Ukrainian history.

Orest Subtelny, Ukraine. A History, Toronto

La gloriosa nación cosaca y tal...

Después de este post, el owned que se ha comido @Patagonico es de récord. No creo que vuelva a comentar por aquí.

 

[naburiano]

El golpe de estado lo dio Rusia envenenando a Yushenko en 2004 e invadiendo el este de Ucrania en 2014.
Además ya habían invadido Ucrania varias veces en el pasado.

Si, lo de envenenar a Yushenko estuvo mal, pero es normal, Yushenko quería aproximarse a occidente.

 

[naburiano]

Quien si dio un golpe de estado en Rusia es pilinguin, pero no veo a los amarusos pidiendo que se invada Rusia por ello.

No se puede invadir a una nacion nuclear, por motivos obvios.

Y si, lo dio, pero es normal, dadas las circunstancias del expansionismo OTANico hacia el este.

 

[skan]

No se puede invadir a una nacion nuclear, por motivos obvios.

Y si, lo dio, pero es normal, dadas las circunstancias del expansionismo OTANico hacia el este.

Menuda excusa ridícula.
La realidad es que entonces la OTAN estaba disolviendonse. Ha sido pilinguin el que ha hecho que la OTAN se necesaria otra vez.

 

[naburiano]

Menuda excusa ridícula.
La realidad es que entonces la OTAN estaba disolviendonse. Ha sido pilinguin el que ha hecho que la OTAN se necesaria otra vez.

La OTAN no estaba disolviéndose.

 

[BURBUJEITOR II]

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