53 comments:
Vijay SankarMarch 6, 2016 at 8:22 AM
Thank you for the detailed info re. what one can expect with a Tesla. I was thinking about getting a Tesla next year till I read your post.
Reply
Ken MillerMarch 6, 2016 at 9:48 AM
The no-lease thing is because you can't get federal or state incentives I'd you lease. Great rundown thanks for publishing this.
Reply
Replies
Mike JacoubowskyMarch 7, 2016 at 5:49 PM
At least in California, you can get both federal & state incentives with a 3-year lease (at least that's been the case with the Chevy Volt). The money actually goes to the bank, but is (or should be) credited back to the person leasing the car.
Reply
Paul RodmanMarch 6, 2016 at 9:52 AM
A very strange blog post indeed. From what I know, the gist of your posting would be the same for any high end car. Do I want to use my car as a power source? Tow a trailer with a car not rated for that? No, of course not.
The service lockdown makes total sense right now. I have no problem with it. The car is completely computer controlled and could probably easily be hacked into going faster, etc.... Not to mention they are still learning and changing things....the over the air upgrades and bug fixes are awesome and all car makers are amowing as quickly as possible. Musk has publicly stated he doesn't intend for service to be a profit making organization. Perhaps you don't believe that promise but I'm willing to take that risk.
Comparing this policy to the EV1 is just silly. The EV1 was built by AC propulsion for GM, GM had no interest in electric cars (Watch movie "Who killed the electric car?") but probably wanted to understand what they'd be up against if they became popular.
I'm not a "rich" person. The most expensive car I have owned was the Camry Hybrid I sold when I got my Tesla. The Camry, which has a good reputation, required plenty of expensive repairs during it's live...with a 'finale' of $800 to change a bad electric duct flapper valve that prevented defrost mode from working. There was only one guy in the shop willing to take the 2 day job of open heart surgery to replace it so I could sell that car.
Basically, With all due respect, I think your blog posting is overblown. IMHO, the Model S will be more reliable and no more difficult or expensive to service than any other luxury car over time.
It's an awesome machine. Have you driven one yet?
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesMarch 9, 2016 at 8:43 PM
Elon Musk claims many things. It will be interesting to see where things go, but I stand by my conclusions right now.
Being "no more difficult or expensive to service than any luxury car" is interesting, but ultimately not useful when it comes to the Model 3 - as that will be a lower price, mass market car that, at least from everything that's known now, will be serviced in the same way - the same service centers that Model S owners are annoyed at.
I haven't driven one. There's literally nothing in my life that would be improved by one, since I've found other forms of transport that are cheaper and more consistent. I'd rather spend the money on a house.
I'd like one eventually, once they hit cheap beater status, but unless something changes, that won't happen, so I won't own one.
UnknownMarch 10, 2016 at 4:16 PM
I am the manager of an independent auto repair shop specializing in hybrids, and I can assure every aspect of this blog is spot-on. Our industry advocacy association ASCCA lobbies in Sacramento constantly to fight the OEMs for access to parts and information, partly of course out of the self-preservation instinct, but also in the interest of allowing competition to create a market which benefits the consumer. In fact, it sounds like Tesla is in violation of state and federal laws, but much like BMW they probably use loopholes such as the technology eternally being in a beta release.
At any rate, don't undervalue the information presented here.
Reply
FlaviosloviMarch 6, 2016 at 10:20 AM
Paul, no other high end car (we own a few) have such atrocious Extended Warranty provisions.
This is an area Tesla can do a lot better. Some of these concerns are not at all overblown.
Reply
ChrisMarch 6, 2016 at 12:13 PM
Why do I need a automobile which needs repairs often and spews nasty fumes at all times. My horse takes care of itself for the most part and there are plenty of places to tie up the beast, while easily feed and shelter on the road at almost every stop. The car needs gasoline which I can't get from many places and the parts are all made in a factory three states away. Everyone around knows animal husbandry but few if any know how to fix an automobile.
"Yup, the automobile is waste of time and is never going to be worth owning and besides I'm not selling my horse since I just got a new saddle and matching crop. You're all crazy with your highfalutin auto-mo-bile."
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesMarch 6, 2016 at 2:05 PM
You miss the point entirely. My problem is not with electric vehicles (see the whole rest of my blog). My problem is with vehicles that are deliberately difficult to maintain for no good reason.
I commute daily on an electric bike, and my bike is entirely maintainable by me. I can trivially swap out parts if something fails (the throttle lever failed the other day, and it took me 15 minutes to install the replacement). I can obtain parts for it from a wide variety of sources. As a result, I'm not bound to any particular vendor or bike shop for repairs.
ChrisMarch 7, 2016 at 8:11 AM
No, you missed the point of MY post. The point is that these were the same issues when the automobile was new. It worked itself out as the quantity increased.
Tesla is keeping repairs close to home since it's been shown that their is a concerted effort to stop Tesla. When you have that kind of animosity you don't trust others to do certain things that are important to your image.
You make a lot of assumptions and predict future problems but let me make an assumption of my own: It will work itself out. The sky isn't falling on Tesla. They are playing their hand close to their vest and when they go much bigger with the Model 3 they will change their modus operandi to accommodate. They believe it will last longer due to less moving parts; it makes scientific sense that it will.
Reply
Ko KoMarch 6, 2016 at 2:15 PM
The author should have been a lawyer the way he shouts overblown antiestéticar from every orifice to cloud the extreme value proposition that the Tesla Model 3 represents. Please analyze the stock market next so we all know to do the exact opposite of your opinion and earn the highest ROI.
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesMarch 6, 2016 at 2:21 PM
"Overblown antiestéticar from every orifice"?
If you can point to where I made factual mistakes, please, do so - I welcome the correction, and this post was somewhat hard to find reliable sources for. If there are genuine errors, I would like to correct them.
However, if all you're going to do is scream that "BUT HE DOESN'T LIKE TESLA HE'S A BIG MEANIE DOODOO HEAD!!!" (which is basically what your comment amounts to), you're not adding anything of value.
Reply
MikeMarch 6, 2016 at 3:43 PM
Most of the points you make are par for the course in legal/insurance matters. 1. You promise the world 2. You insert clauses retracting all previously mentioned liability.
Reply
Andrew MartinMarch 6, 2016 at 4:45 PM
Thanks for the article, Russell.
The Tesla is an interesting car to me, but the comments from the Tesla VP are very enlightening indeed. My car's tire pressure is top-secret Intellectual Property? I wouldn't buy a car where even my vehicle logs are considered Tesla's. Also, all that technology and they couldn't put a working OBD port in there?
Tesla better change their attitude about this stuff if they intend to last as a business beyond the warranty period of the current generation of their cars.
Reply
Replies
UnknownMarch 7, 2016 at 3:34 PM
Tyre pressure is visible since the autopilot upgrade with the new UI. So there's a factual error there already.
Reply
andrewcjduongMarch 6, 2016 at 8:28 PM
The transfer of warranty completely makes sense to me. It's basically stating that if you sell your car, but are purchasing another Tesla. The remaining extended warranty can be transferred to another Tesla. I don't get why you're confused...
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesMarch 6, 2016 at 9:34 PM
What you can do with an extended warranty seemingly changes on the whims of some manager at Tesla Motors.
Reply
Barnacle BillMarch 6, 2016 at 8:43 PM
On the one hand, I see your point. I carefully considered buying a Tesla, and one of the things that turned me away was the reputation that it's "the iPhone of cars", and even basic software upgrades would require additional payments. On the other hand, I get the impression that you might consider driving a 1986 Ford Mustang, which might get 12MPG, a better choice than driving a Tesla, because you can fix it yourself. Cars are complex. It's been 20 years since the average home mechanic could do much more than an oil change. If anybody buys a Tesla and expects it to be serviced less expensively by a 3rd party shop, they are smoking crack. And I have to give them the benefit of the doubt that allowing 3rd parties to muck about will result only in sadness. Do you reprogram the ROM on your computer, or the microcode on your NIC card? Do you feel like you need to, or should be allowed to?
Time will tell. If Tesla is still servicing the 2012 Model S in 2032, at the same shop rates as for any other cars, then your arguments are specious. But neither you nor I can predict whether they will, or whether they will "EOL" their old models. True, their service is expensive and proprietary. Um, have you been to a Benz service department lately? Just because it's expensive and proprietary doesn't miccionan it's any less sustainable than any other system, for similar technology.
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesMarch 6, 2016 at 9:40 PM
I'm not a fan of Mustangs, but, yes, you have the year right for my long term plan as a fun car.
I do my best to reduce single occupant car based transportation, and the number of other posts on my blog about electric bikes should give you an idea as to what I consider a reasonable way of getting one person around.
As for reprogramming the ROMs, would you consider modifying the EFI firmware flashed into a BIOS chip "reprogramming the ROM"? If so, then, yes, I have done this, and I have messed around with some NICs as well. If by ROM you miccionan "hardware ROM" static boot block, no, I haven't messed about it with it, because it is, in fact, read only. I'd have to replace it entirely, and I haven't found a need to.
Even if Tesla is servicing a 2012 Model S in 2032, do you expect the buyers of a 20 year old Model S to all be in the financial situation to pay whatever Tesla wants for repairs? That's going to be the only option unless something changes, which is what I hope to bring awareness of.
I haven't been in a Mercedes service department lately, no. The only Mercedes vehicles I've had the pleasure of taking care of were quite old at the time.
Reply
Satisfied Model S owner in CTMarch 6, 2016 at 9:23 PM
I have a 2013 Model S P85 which I purchased from the original owner with 75,000 miles on the odometer. No extended warranty. Thus far, over 8 months:
Replaced 2 door handles (about $950 each);
Replaced the motor (mentioned to the tech that I heard "something" between 23-28mph; he concurred, recorded the noise, and shortly thereafter I received a call telling me that the replacement was covered by the 8-year/unlimited mile battery/drivetrain warranty - replaced at my convenience for free, along with a "frayed wiring harness to the emergency brake" - again, cost =$0);
Crimped windshield washer fluid hose fixed (courtesy repair);
Replaced rear tail light assembly (bugs inside - clearly not sealed) cost = about $950
Bought 4 new snow tires = $1,100 installed
All in all, although it appears to be expensive, it really isn't - and the Service Center people (3 locations, 3 states) have been very professional... Not "Lexus White Glove" lecel, but better than my recollections of dealer service elsewhere.
I timtied to get an exception to purchase an extended warranty - not offered in CT when car was <50k miles - but request was denied.
Car is really great.
Thing to remember: owners are subjects in a Beta test process.
I'm confident I'll be good for 200,000 miles+ here.
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesMarch 6, 2016 at 9:43 PM
In 8 months, you've had $1900 in door handle repairs, a drive unit replaced (under warranty), a failing wiring harness to the emergency brake (which, ideally, would function in an emergency), a failed hose for wiper fluid (often quite important for seeing clearly in conditions), and a failed tail light? You've spent nearly $3000 on repairs in 8 months (I don't count snow tires as repairs), have a significantly greater amount covered under warranty, and you expect this will be an affordable car to take another 200k miles? I wish you the vest of luck, but that's not something I would consider a reasonable decision.
UnknownMarch 6, 2016 at 11:24 PM
Geez I bought 2 20ish year old cars(93 camaro, 98 camaro) and one 30 year old car(85 corvette) in the last year as Ive developed a keen interest in sports cars as I near 30 years old.
The 93 camaro ran fine but small things needed, the 98 camaro needed a transmission, and the corvette needed a transmission. i fixed all 3 of them up for half what your 3 year year old car needed alone. Granted, I did the work myself because I thought it would be a good learning experience and now its become a hobby because I enjoyed doing it so much. I wouldnt trade my old cars that I actually own and have titles for and I can do ANYTHING I WANT WITH, for one of these new locked down electric cars ever.
I saw the videos for all the neat antiestéticatures when they first started hitting the road and Ill admit.. I was impressed. The part of me that loves to tinker thought, "Wow I wonder if I could get a wrecked one and maybe turn one of my camaros into an EV!" But reading how locked down this stuff is, was disappointing.. SERIOUSLY. Im not asking for the source code or a developer kit.. but them requiring all vehicles to be unlocked at the dealership? What a shame.. and we were all behind this company for doing something different but it really looks like a stealership in disguise. I think when these cars start breaking down, things will get ugly.
Satisfied Model S owner in CTMarch 7, 2016 at 3:50 AM
It is fair to note that I paid a meaningful discount for the car... The previous owner failed to handle some warranty issues (rear lights, one door handle) that I ended up handling from my own pocket (discount covered those) and the "crimped hose" was just a brief hassle. The rear-drive replacement issue was covered by the basic warranty - imagine the sh*tstorm trying to get an engine - or key component - replaced from another manufacturer EVEN while under warranty! (Watch what Chevy/BMW do if this happens with their EV's)...
I have other cars (Porsche, Mercedes), and the hassle factor here is SIGNIFICANTLY lower thus far... Probability/Occurrence/Experience are where the potential problems reside moving forward - who knows? Thus far, Tesla has been a "stand up" experience in terms of their stance on repairs.
The message appears to be that if you want to "tinker" with your car, perhaps look elsewhere.
Reply
MichaelMarch 6, 2016 at 10:22 PM
I clicked thinking I would disagree but you quickly changed my mind. Very eye opening. Thanks!
Reply
cornflakesMarch 6, 2016 at 11:44 PM
Very very enlightening post, thank you Russell.
Your post has blown up in some other subs too, like r/cars.
Reply
UnknownMarch 7, 2016 at 12:55 AM
Would anynone who understands the complexity of a Tesla like a tinkerer (presumably a good one - no offense) to repair his car? I certainly would not.
This is why Tesla is doing quite right to restrict amateurs from fiddling with their products. One big selling point for a Tesla is its safety - and this I rather lay into the hands of the manufacturer.
Anyway - many thanks for the blog!
Reply
UnknownMarch 7, 2016 at 2:29 AM
Very interesting post!
First of all, I'm a big fan of Tesla and I totally agree with you. I'm also disappointed by other fans who say "great car, I'm 100% sure it will work forever" or "saying anything against Tesla means you are against EV", etc.
Your arguments are valid and I hope Tesla will do something in this area to fix some of the problems. Definitely some data (tire pressure) should be easily accessible.
Reply
Lew AshloMarch 7, 2016 at 7:48 AM
The title of this article is nonsense. The Tesla should not be condemned because it is not repairable by back yard mechanics. It is more akin to an airliner that is maintained according to manufacturers specifications for several decades. They are then only replaced when something more fuel efficient comes along. The Tesla's battery and motor efficiency are unlikely to be improved upon more than a few percent. If a higher capacity battery becomes available in the future, it can be changed in minutes in a Tesla. The cost of after warranty maintenance will be reflected in the used resale value.
The Model S and X are aluminum and even steel cars don't rust much anymore.
Reply
sshcc2k5March 7, 2016 at 10:05 AM
Tesla was right to start with affluent buyers. The bottom line is that no model of Tesla will ever be for cheap bastards. Not even the 3. I think this blog does a nice job of pointing that out. Tesla owners (up until now at least) don't think of expensive repairs as gouging them. They gladly cough up the money as an R&D donation to support the idea of a green future. As far as not being able to access your own car, have you ever read a commercial software license? This isn't a free, open-source, hand-holding kumbaya world. Tesla is in brutal competition to survive and make a profit. Their survival, in turn, ensures that service is even possible for their cars literally and figuratively down the road. Their cars are locked down because they CAN lock them down. Want an easily self-servicable electric car? Start your own electric car company. Tesla's released most of its patents. Your competing open-source electric car might encourage Tesla to open theirs. I'll be waiting.
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesMarch 9, 2016 at 8:55 PM
Actually, I'm working on an easy to repair/upgrade line of electric bikes. So, while it's not a car, I am working towards what I talk about.
ahmetrcagilMay 16, 2016 at 12:27 AM
Even though I appreciate your mindset about personal transportation, the fact that you are working on a line of e-bikes does not really say much. Putting an e-bike together does not require even the tiniest amount of engineering skills. Even someone who never set foot in a bike shop or touched any electronics could learn everything necessary to put one together in a few months tops without understanding any of the underlying physics or math, and the whole necessary tech is already there. When it comes to electric cars though, good luck. Just not the same thing. There is a reason no car startups ever succeeded up until Tesla. I don't think it is realistic to expect some company to challenge the giants of one of the most estabished and powerful industries in the world and at the same time play along with "tinkerers" at an expense of potentially staining their reputation in an environment which is already trying ferociously to tear it apart.
A person who can't afford to spend 3% of a car's costs every year should not be buying that car anyways.
Good luck on the e-bike business though and thanks for trying to make a change. I really think that is the direction world should be headed in. Moving tons of metal just to carry a person makes very little sense in many scenarios.
Reply
Erik WestmarchMarch 7, 2016 at 1:10 PM
Great post. I appreciate the details. I think the simplest explanation is two-fold:
1) There's too much software in this car for anyone to debug the car without access to the codebase anyway, and Tesla isn't letting that out into the wild any more than Microsoft is releasing Windows as open source software.
2) They're going to transition quickly to a self-driving future anyway, where cars are rented by the minute and drive to your location. Big taxi companies like Uber will be able to negotiate with Tesla on equal footing for good fleet maintenance rates.
Reply
TachoneMarch 7, 2016 at 1:52 PM
Hi ,,, nice work... we would like to republish on
www.theautochannel.com with attribution and links of course... yes?
Reply
Tom MooreMarch 7, 2016 at 5:43 PM
It'll be some time before independent car mechanics will work on EVs. The DC high voltage scares them to death. I couldn't even get my guy to add a trailer hitch hookup to a hybrid because it had a HV battery in it. Give it time...
Reply
Gabriel SongMarch 7, 2016 at 10:21 PM
That's very true. Tesla is like a walled garden of technogies that are too difficult to understand for the normal folk, and there's very little infrastructure out there (mechanics, knowledge, etc.) for the vehicles to be serviced. A huge toll on resources, money, and environment. This is why we must be more conscious of the whole cycle, from manufacturing, to use life, to recycling. I am currently working with an awesome company that is trying to change this: OSVehicle. Open source, common components, modular. We thought about the whole cycle from the ground up.
Holler me on Twitter if you wanna chat (@gabsong). Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Reply
Peter KMarch 8, 2016 at 8:54 AM
I think the VP's point was he didn't want competitors seeing the screenshots someone had posted. Tesla doesn't want to share everything with the people trying to take it down.
Reply
Alden FordMarch 13, 2016 at 8:04 AM
Thanks for all of this, lots of great info here and definitely things to watch out for.
My only issue is that you seem not to have any appreciation for the fact that this is a car with unprecedented software integration for what it is, unprecedented power for what it is, and is in a nascent category of vehicles (antiestéticaturing a nascent category of antiestéticatures) that is still being explored technologically, socially and legally.
Tesla has been public for 4 years and have owners still in the 5 or 6 digits. Can they really afford to allow people to tinker with the hardware or software to the degree that car people - let alone ignorant laypersons with a wrench or a CAT5 cable - would be able to with a mechanical vehicle?
This isn't comparable to replacing the battery on your phone, or building the perfect PC from scratch, or even repairing your electric bike, which, although not mechanical, is, I venture to assume, a significantly simpler machine than a Tesla. This is an enormously heavy, fast, powerful metal box, constantly performing hundreds of software and hardware functions, that often contains children, pets and family members. Tesla needs an airtight warranty because of the thousands of ways their brand new technology could go horribly wrong even without any outside repairs or aftermarket modifications.
The risks of being more transparent, at this stage, FAR outweigh the rewards of appeasing people who expect a luxury electric car to be self-servicable and self-modifiable in the same way a 1989 sedan would be - one is a purely mechanical vehicle, one of millions and millions with essentially the same design, components and operation, millions of competent service people and an entire subculture of understanding and appreciation for its inner workings, and the other is one of maybe 80,000 currently on the road, loaded to the brim with brand new proprietary software, hardware, and technology. They're apples and oranges.
All this is to say, I think it's short sighted to make this a question of "throwaway cars." That term assumes that a) these cars have inherently short lives, which I don't think there's any evidence to support, AND that b) the opaque nature of their design and warranty serves purposefully and primarily to keep people from extending the lives of their own cars, which I think is needlessly optimistic, and again, unsupported by evidence.
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesMarch 15, 2016 at 10:28 AM
We'll see in 20 years, won't we?
Or, really, we'll start seeing in another few years how out-of-warranty Model Ss are to keep running. Any car should be able to stay on the road for 10 years - it's the next 10 that get interesting. And with the frequency of significant warranty repairs right now, I expect many of the early Model Ss will not be financially antiestéticasible to keep on the road much out of the extended warranty period.
By the way, one could make your same arguments about late 80s cars. They had fuel injection with high pressure fuel rails, electronic ignition, timing belts that had to be set just right or the engine would destroy itsself, electronic odometers, etc.
Reply
UnknownMarch 18, 2016 at 7:02 PM
I'm not a lawyer but if the company that makes the product is the only one that can make parts for the product and repair the product isn't that considered a monopoly and subject to the Sherman Antitrust Act?
Reply
Montana SkepticMarch 28, 2016 at 11:36 AM
Mr. Graves, just fyi, I've linked to your blog piece. Best regards, Montana Skeptic
http://seekingalpha.com/article/396...la-appears-poised-issue-debt-2-billion-equity
Reply
~fIrStoHiT~April 15, 2016 at 10:12 PM
I heard that Tesla is keeping the design of the engine open source . their mail message is to make sustainable transportation the future anybody see where this open source is? are they keeping this promise?
Reply
MattApril 25, 2016 at 9:34 AM
I liked the article, but this part is what loses credibility:
Regarding competition driving, autocross, etc - remember, this is a company who wrote their interpretation of a test drive, including such details as, "Instead of plugging in the car, he drove in circles for over half a mile in a tiny, 100-space parking lot."
The whole point of that sentence and the rest of the paragraph was to illustrate the absurd lengths the driver went through in order to argue that it fell below the vehicle's projected range for the trip. If the review had been honest about its actual route, the time charges, and conditions of the car itself, it wouldn't have been an issue.
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesApril 26, 2016 at 11:13 AM
Matt -
You entirely missed my point there. It's in the context of the extended warranty and autocross/track days/etc. If Tesla collects enough data on their cars to tell exactly what a reporter did in a parking lot, they very well collect enough data to tell if you've been autocrossing or out driving hard on a track.
Reply
Keef WivanefMay 11, 2016 at 1:59 AM
gpcordaro, Apr 28, 2016
I have owned my Model S since May of 2013 and truly love the car. With that said, I must tell everyone about a recent problem I experienced this past Sunday while driving on a back road at a very low rate of speed, about 5 MPH. The road was rough so my air ride was at it max lift. As I was proceeding down a steep hill I heard a snap and felt my steering wheel pull to the left. I stopped the car for further inspection only to discover that my left front hub assembly separated from the upper control arm. Needless to say the car was inoperable due to a loss of steering. Thank goodness I was not traveling at a high rate of speed. This could of been a tragic accident causing injury or even death.
I contacted Tesla and they towed the car to a service center. They just informed that this is not covered under warranty, stating that the cause was due to normal wear and tear. I have owned many cars in my life and have never experienced such a failure. My car has been driven 73000 miles.
Has anyone experienced this failure on their car?
Here is how Tesla is keeping everyone quit. JMHO
They want me to sign a Goodwill Agreement if they Pay 50% of my repair cost. The total cost is 3100 dollars. The need to replace three of the four front control arms, EG upper and lower a-arm on the left side and the upper a-arm on the right side. It was the left side that failed. The control arm ball joint is an integral part of the a-arm or as Tesla refer Control arm. Three of four in 70 thousand miles and they say that is normal wear and tear. Get Real.
Reply
Keef WivanefMay 11, 2016 at 2:02 AM
Date Complaint Filed: 05/05/2016Date of Incident: 03/10/2016Component(s): SUSPENSIONNHTSA ID Number: 10863505Consumer Location: Unknown
All Products Associated with this Complaint expand
Details close
help 0 Available Documents
Crash:No Fire:No Number of Injuries:0 Number of Deaths:0
Manufacturer: Tesla Motors, Inc.
Vehicle Identification No. (VIN): 5YJSA1E17GF...
SUMMARY:
THIS VEHICLE IS FOR SALE AS A SALVAGE WRECK.
HTTPS://M.IAAI.COM/VEHICLEDETENC.ASPX?AUCTIONID=0&ITEMID=21970334&ROWID=1&PAGESOURCE=VEHICLERESULTS# THE FRONT SUSPENSION HAS COMPLETELY TORN AWAY. THE WHEEL IS IN THE FRUNK OF THE CAR AND APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN SLICED IN HALF. THAT IS INDICATIVE OF THE WHEEL BEING GOUGED FROM THE INSIDE WHILST THE CAR WAS IN MOTION. THERE IS NO SIGNIFICANT IMPACT DAMAGE FORWARD OF THE WHEEL THAT COULD ACCOUNT FOR THE SUSPENSION BEING TORN OFF. I HAVE SUBMITTED MANY OTHER COMPLAINTS OF SUSPENSION FAILURES ON TESLAS. THIS IS A 2016 MODEL AND THE SUSPENSION KNUCKLE HAS BEEN REDESIGNED TO A MUCH STURDIER VERSION THAN THE HOLLOW SECTION THAT WAS USED ON EARLIER MODELS AND WHICH PHOTOGRAPHS SHOW HAS FREQUENTLY SNAPPED OFF AT THE TIP OR IN MID SECTION. NONETHELESS THE SUSPENSION HAS FAILED ONCE AGAIN. I HAVE EVIDENCE THAT TESLA ARE OFFERING CUSTOMERS A SETTLEMENT OFFER IN RETURN FOR SIGNING AN NDA. A COPY OF THE NDA FORM IS ATTACHED. PLEASE INVESTIGATE THIS MATTER.
Reply
Keef WivanefMay 11, 2016 at 2:26 AM
Date Complaint Filed: 05/09/2016Date of Incident: 02/01/2016Component(s): SUSPENSIONNHTSA ID Number: 10863851Consumer Location: Unknown
All Products Associated with this Complaint expand
Details close
help 0 Available Documents
Crash:Yes Fire:No Number of Injuries:0 Number of Deaths:0
Manufacturer: Tesla Motors, Inc.
Vehicle Identification No. (VIN): 5YJSA1E27FF...
SUMMARY:
THIS IS YET ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF A TESLA MODEL S WITH THE SUSPENSION FALLEN APART.
HTTPS://M.IAAI.COM/VEHICLEDETENC.ASPX?AUCTIONID=0&ITEMID=21706777&ROWID=11&PAGESOURCE=VEHICLERESULTS THIS CAR HAS ONLY TRAVELLED 2000 MILES FROM NEW. YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE BROKEN PARTS OF THE SUSPENSION. THE WHEEL AND TIRE ARE UNDAMAGED. THIS FAILURE CAN NOT POSSIBLY BE THE RESULT OF IMPACT DAMAGE AND WAS ALMOST CERTAINLY THE CAUSE OF THE ACCIDENT. TESLA OFFERS OWNERS OF CARS THAT HAVE HAD SUSPENSION FAILURES A "GOODWILL PAYMENT" IN RETURN FOR SIGNING A NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT. THERE HAVE BEEN HUNDREDS OF SIMILAR SUSPENSION FAILURES ON TESLAS BUT VERY FEW OWNERS HAVE FILED COMPLAINTS. HERE IS AN OWNER WHOSE FRONT SUSPENSION FELL APART AND HE WAS CONCERNED THAT THE FAULT MIGHT AFFECT MANY OTHER CARS IN THE WORLDWIDE FLEET OF TESLAS. GPCORDARO, APR 28, 2016 WHILE DRIVING ON A BACK ROAD AT A VERY LOW RATE OF SPEED, ABOUT 5 MPH. THE ROAD WAS ROUGH SO MY AIR RIDE WAS AT IT MAX LIFT. AS I WAS PROCEEDING DOWN A STEEP HILL I HEARD A SNAP AND FELT MY STEERING WHEEL PULL TO THE LEFT. I STOPPED THE CAR FOR FURTHER INSPECTION ONLY TO DISCOVER THAT MY LEFT FRONT HUB ASSEMBLY SEPARATED FROM THE UPPER CONTROL ARM. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A TRAGIC ACCIDENT CAUSING INJURY OR EVEN DEATH. TESLA JUST INFORMED THAT THIS IS NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY, STATING THAT THE CAUSE WAS DUE TO NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR. I HAVE OWNED MANY CARS IN MY LIFE AND HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED SUCH A FAILURE. ******* AND THEN HE ACCEPTED THE OFFER AND SIGNED THE NDA. ******* GPCORDARO, SATURDAY AT 4:52 AM THIS IS THE LAST POST I WILL MAKE ON THIS SUBJECT. TESLA AND I HAVE COME TO TERMS. I AM NOT AT LIBERTY TO DISCUSS THE TERMS, I CAN ONLY SAY THAT I AM SATISFIED. I BELIEVE THAT TESLA IS COVERING UP THE SUSPENSION FAILURES. PLEASE INVESTIGATE.
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesMay 12, 2016 at 6:20 AM
Keef - could you get in touch with me via the contact form? This seems worth looking into more.
Keef WivaneffJune 9, 2016 at 1:53 AM
Sorry...only just saw your post...
I think the horse may have bolted!
http://dailykanban.com/2016/06/tesla-suspension-breakage-not-crime-coverup/
Keef WivaneffJune 9, 2016 at 1:58 AM
How the fudge do I contact you? wot contact form?
Google Plus just gives me a headache.
Meh.
Russell GravesJune 9, 2016 at 9:50 AM
The contact form is in the right column, about one scroll down from the top.
Reply
Keef WivaneffJune 9, 2016 at 1:52 AM
I'll betcha the warranty doesn't cover WHOMPY WHEELS!
http://dailykanban.com/2016/06/tesla-suspension-breakage-not-crime-coverup/
Reply
Charles MonaeJune 27, 2016 at 2:12 PM
Won't all of these issues go away once Tesla and other electric car manufacturers have a larger segment of the overall car market? If they have more vehicles on the road, it would make sense for them to provide mechanics with the info on how to fix their cars; they could, of course, make you go to a special mechanic who has a deal with them, but I am inclined to believe Elon Musk is less interested in that. He released the patents for his vehicles, I wouldn't be surprised if he started releasing documents on how to best maintain them. Thoughts? Thanks!
- Charles, Car Insurance Provider in Western MA
Reply
Replies
Russell GravesJune 27, 2016 at 2:36 PM
Not a fan of your spam link, but it is an on topic comment. Tesla has gone out of their way to make it hard to get access to the service docs. What makes you think this will change?
