*Tema mítico* : Hilo oficial del Bitcoin (VI)

Sr.Elemento dijo:

¿Te parece poco incrementar tu base de clientes un 4% símplemente por añadir un botón?

Hacer clic para expandir...

El día en que la Wikipedia acepte donativos en bitcoin no volveremos a ver jamás el careto de los fundadores diciendo dame argo payo

Como van las camisetas a $95 payo?

SI te vendo un bitcoin a $100 me lo compras? :XX:

Está aburridilla la cotización del bitcoin...eso si...en cuanto compran poco sube $20...

muyuu dijo:

Tienes que estar registrado para ver este contenido

Hacer clic para expandir...

Muy buen articulo!

Pongo en duda que el 70% de bitcoin lo muevan los chinos como menciona nico. Las gráficas que muestran donde se compran bitcoin efectivamente muestran que la mayoría es en china, pero mas que nada porque allí tienen grandes exchanges. Yo estoy en españa y compró desde exchanges chinos, por tanto, mi compra como español aparece representada como una compra china y así para muchos ciudadanos del mundo. No tendría mucho sentido que otros gobiernos del mundo estén estudiando como tratar bitcoin si bitcoin solo fuese algo local chino

We are excited to see our newest merchant, +Seattle Seahawks, accepting bitcoin and going to the Super Bowl!

Hacer clic para expandir...

---------- Post added 22-ene-2014 at 09:50 ----------



---------- Post added 22-ene-2014 at 10:03 ----------



---------- Post added 22-ene-2014 at 10:15 ----------

Nico dijo:

Elemento:


4) Creer que los $ 830 de hoy son un "valor estable" es un engaño. Quiero ver qué pasa cuando haya que presentar las liquidaciones de impuestos (Abril en USA para los personales) y la gente se tope con que tiene que "evadir" o bien pagar por "incrementos de capital" sin tener el dinero en la mano.

Hacer clic para expandir...

Es cuando se vende el bitcoin que se paga impuestos-- mirate las reglas de la IRS, so simple.

silverwindow dijo:

Vale.
Pues mis plusvis de 400% dicen lo contrario.
Pero, oye, tu a lo tuyo.

Hacer clic para expandir...

Hablamos dentro de un par de años, millonetis, que eres un millonetis. Y nuevo en el trading y la inversión supongo. No es como se empieza sino como se termina. Haz caso a Papá rico.

---------- Post added 22-ene-2014 at 18:31 ----------

El Banco Fidor introduce derivados de bitcoin.

¿Es un banco online de verdad o solamente una cía financiera sin llegar a ser banco? Es que la web está en Alemán.




---------- Post added 22-ene-2014 at 18:37 ----------

A ver, de interés para los trinc del foro: :no:

Agencia de "Escorts" Holandesa empieza a aceptar Bitcoin:

mamendurrio dijo:

A ver, de interés para los trinc del foro: :no:

Agencia de "Escorts" Holandesa empieza a aceptar Bitcoin:

Tienes que estar registrado para ver este contenido

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Hacer clic para expandir...

Pobre Reputininiano...no pone si aceptan oro?

Acabo de vislumbrar un error grave en el diseño de Bitcoin que compromete su viabilidad a largo plazo:

De la propia página:

Isn't Bitcoin mining a waste of energy?
Spending energy to secure and operate a payment system is hardly a waste. Like any other payment service, the use of Bitcoin entails processing costs. Services necessary for the operation of currently widespread monetary systems, such as banks, credit cards, and armored vehicles, also use a lot of energy. Although unlike Bitcoin, their total energy consumption is not transparent and cannot be as easily measured.

Bitcoin mining has been designed to become more optimized over time with specialized hardware consuming less energy, and the operating costs of mining should continue to be proportional to demand. When Bitcoin mining becomes too competitive and less profitable, some miners choose to stop their activities. Furthermore, all energy expended mining is eventually transformed into heat, and the most profitable miners will be those who have put this heat to good use. An optimally efficient mining network is one that isn't actually consuming any extra energy. While this is an ideal, the economics of mining are such that miners individually strive toward it.

Hacer clic para expandir...

1- Minar es pogre más difícil; hace falta un hardware cada vez más potente para obtener cada vez menos beneficio hasta que llega al punto en que minar no es rentable por el gasto en hardware y electricidad, a no ser que 1 BTC acabe costando la galaxia.
2- Incluso cuando los 21M Bitcoins hayan sido emitidos (el máximo) harán falta mineros para mantener las listas de transacciones. Pero si minar supone perder dinero, los mineros se largarán y entonces nadie querrá mantener la red por la cara y entonces...adiós Bitcoin.

Yosako dijo:

Acabo de vislumbrar un error grave en el diseño de Bitcoin que compromete su viabilidad a largo plazo:

De la propia página:

Tienes que estar registrado para ver este contenido

1- Minar es pogre más difícil; hace falta un hardware cada vez más potente para obtener cada vez menos beneficio hasta que llega al punto en que minar no es rentable por el gasto en hardware y electricidad, a no ser que 1 BTC acabe costando la galaxia.
2- Incluso cuando los 21M Bitcoins hayan sido emitidos (el máximo) harán falta mineros para mantener las listas de transacciones. Pero si minar supone perder dinero, los mineros se largarán y entonces nadie querrá mantener la red por la cara y entonces...adiós Bitcoin.

Hacer clic para expandir...

1- Llegará un momento en el que se estabilizará la dificultad por que sólo unos pocos podrán minar, tan apenas será rentable. Si la gente deja de minar por que no es rentable, bajará la dificultad y volverá a serlo.

2- En cuanto a la lista de transacciones, supongo que te refieres a la block chain, la puedes tener en local y dar soporte con tu monedero o bien tirar de una de un servidor como hace multibit.

Jorobar, ¿todavía estamos con esas?

manitou_ dijo:

1- Llegará un momento en el que se estabilizará la dificultad por que sólo unos pocos podrán minar, tan apenas será rentable. Si la gente deja de minar por que no es rentable, bajará la dificultad y volverá a serlo.

2- En cuanto a la lista de transacciones, supongo que te refieres a la block chain, la puedes tener en local y dar soporte con tu monedero o bien tirar de una de un servidor como hace multibit.

Hacer clic para expandir...

Quote from: salsacz on Today at 07:01:10 PM
btw here are our last papers about this, any comment would be fantastic, we still didn't make all maths

Quote from: hughmanwho on January 19, 2014, 10:16:28 PM
The cost to run the network mostly depends upon the amount of electricity it uses

I see the biggest cost to running the Bitcoin and Nextcoin networks to be the electricity used to power the network and hardware costs which have to be covered by transaction fees. Currently Bitcoin solves that by printing money which disguises the transaction fees. Eventually though that will stop and miners will need to be paid solely using transaction fees which will have to be big enough to cover the cost of the electricity used to power the network. Either way, energy efficiency alone is something important to be considered.

Cost of the electricity to run the Bitcoin network per day

This article was written in May when the hash rate of the Bitcoin network was 100,000 GH/s and they calculate that it cost $7,500 per day to run the network.


Let's assume those number are still the same, except ASICs have gotten more efficient and since we’re thinking long term, I’m going to use the most efficient miners out there as the reference. I’m using a Wattage per Gigahash of 5 Watts per GH for ASICs whereas the above article uses 10 Watts per GH.
Source:

It doesn't look like this will be the case but let's assume the network stays at 17,000,000 GH/s, so 170x bigger and 1/2 the Watts per Gigahash.


So $7500 multiplied by 170 and divided by 2 is $637,500 per day to supply electricity to the network.

$637,500 worth of electricity per day to power the Bitcoin network.


Cost of the electricity to run the Nxt network per day

At any minute in time, only one PC, virtual private servers (VPS), or Raspberry Pi is required to confirm transactions for Nextcoin.

A Raspberry Pi could not run 2000 transactions per second and I'm not sure about your home computer either, but the eventual goal is not to have every person forging but rather people pointing their accounts towards forging pools to be run on high powered equipment, such as a VPS.

VISA runs their network off of 376 servers, therefore it is reasonable to assume that Nextcoin could get to the point where it can survive while running on same number of servers.


As far as the cost a VPS can be gotten off of GoDaddy for $24 per month, even the cheapest server should be able to sustain the Nextcoin network, which means at most they are using $0.8 worth of electricity per day, of course that figure also includes the cost of equipment and some profit for GoDaddy as well, but let's go with $0.8 per day.


So, let's say we are running 376 VPSs, 376 multiplied by $0.80 is $301 worth of electricity per day to run the network.

Therefore I estimate it would take $301 per day to power the Nextcoin network and match Bitcoins capabilities.

Summary: Nxt versus Bitcoin electricity cost

So Bitcoin costs $637,500 per day in electricity to power the network, Nextcoin currently costs $301 per day.

Therefore, Nxt is currently approximately 2120x more energy efficient and therefore cost efficient than Bitcoin.

Reasons this number may be slightly off
The hash rate looks like it will continue to grow rapidly in the near future based on this chart:
Approximately $200 million has been spent on Bitcoin hardware so far but this cost has not been factored into Bitcoin's cost.
Both Bitcoin miners and VPSs will continue to become cheaper and more cost efficient. Given how new Bitcoin miners are, most likely they will become more efficient significantly faster than VPSs. I would estimate that would be a factor of 10 in Bitcoins favor in the future.
The 51% attack problem for Bitcoin basically means that the only way to secure the network is to spend a lot of money on equipment however, so no matter how efficient they get, they will have to support more and more miners in order keep it expensive to attack the network.

Both of them need some work to achieve that number of transactions per second but that is why all my money is on Nextcoin.

As well as some other advantages of Nxt
Nxt has instant transfer confirmation instead of having to wait for 10 minutes
Nxt solves Bitcoin's potential 51% attack problem
Nxt generate interest in the form of new Nxts just by owning them, making them a better investment

<end article>


I've spent all day on this, tweaking numbers for accuracy. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on my math and discuss it. Then I would like to clean it up, maybe better answer some of those things in the reason this number may be off section, and write up an article on the topic and try to spread it around. I'll probably wait until at least one cleaner, easier to use client is up and running and maybe the decentralized exchange before publishing it so people have that one to go to.

Quote from: salsacz on January 20, 2014, 01:09:46 AM
funny, we calculated this 8 days ago and the numbers looked same:


+ new:


But you should really use true Nxt numbers, why would we run Nxt on PCs, when we have public nodes, VPSs and Raspberry Pi?

Quote from: demols on January 12, 2014, 10:10:12 AM
Quote from: rickyjames on January 12, 2014, 05:00:24 AM
Quote from: salsacz on January 11, 2014, 10:14:39 AM
Quote from: NxtChoice on January 11, 2014, 04:45:25 AM
Quote from: salsacz on January 10, 2014, 10:57:32 PM
I need a little advice: How can we calculate a daily cost of Nxt web?

Something like:
number of peers x watts of the average computer? and transfer kW in Dollars?

Do we know a number of forging computers?

I do a simple calculation for you as trinc:

Say 10, 000 nodes in the network for Nxt, as you know there are about 10,000 accounts.

Say each node is a Pi, say each pi consumes 10Watts, so total 100kW, it's 2400 kWh, which is just $600 a day with $0.25 per kWh.

Say each node is a server with 500 Watts, that's 50 times of the above calculation, so it is about $30,000 a day.

So I predict a total power consumption is in the range of $600 ~ $30,000 a day, and most probably below $10000.

Wow, that's the most efficient system in the crypto currency world.


Edit: go on a simple calculation of the price for Nxt. Presently a day's tx fee is ~ 5000 Nxt, if it should cover the power consumption, that is, $600/5000 ~ $30,000/5000, so the Nxt price in the range $0.12 ~ $6.

Yeah, my pricing for Nxt is $0.12 ~ $6.



But there are 300 nodes, not 10k:



Quote
donate(1), 22k(3), 22k.io(66), BEER(1), CentOS(2), FreeBSD(1), linux(6), NCC-1701-D(1), NCC-1864(1), nxt.now.im(12), nxt86(2), PC(121), PC BaiMang...(2), PC-2212(1), Raspberry(1), RaspNXT(1), Rpi(1), RPi Solari...(1), SPARC(1), strawberry(1), Unknown(43), VPS(17), xrp.pw/nxt(1):

(4+66+1+1+12+2+43+17+1)x20W = 3kW
+
(2+6+1+1+121+2+1+1+1+1+1+1+1)x5W = 0.7kW

= 4kW

24(hours)x4(kW)x0.15/kWh = 14 USD

A Raspberry Pi only uses 2W at most: 400ma @ 5V. This has to come from a power supply that has some conversion efficiency of 50-80% or so. Let's be conservative and say we're using a 50% efficient wall plug transformer. Then each Raspberry is using 4W of wall power to generate the 2W it actually needs to run. Say electricity is $0.15 per kWh. Then in a year of 365*24 = 8760 hours, a single Raspberry Pi is going to use 8760 * 4 = 35,040 watt-hours or 35 kWh per year costing 35 * 0.15 = $5.25 of electricity per year.

Thus the power to run a Pi is thus real but pretty negligible in the overall cost picture. You can run 25 Pis nonstop for a solid year for the same amount of juice required to leave a 100W incandescent bulb on day and night for a year.

As a reasonable estimate, a single Pi costs around $120 as capital outlay to set it up for a year of service as an NXT node: $35 for the Pi itself; $30 more for the memory card, cables, cluster support gear, etc; $ 5 for a year's worth of power; and say $50 per year (around $2 / mo) to park it in a server farm. A network of 300 Pis thus costs $36,00 to set up and run for a year (of which $15,000 per year or $1250 per month is "office rental" and "human tech support" and "internet bandwidth").

If there are truly 5000 NXT per day generated in transaction fees as assumed above, that's 365*5000 = 1,825,000 NXT per year. If you are using 300 Pis at $36,000 per year to capture ALL those transaction fees, you are spending $36,000 / 1,825,000 NXT = $0.02 per NXT or around 2 pennies per NXT to capture the NXT using Raspberry Pis. At 0.00005 BTC/NXT and $800/BCT, a NXT is currently worth $0.04 cents.

Rough ballpark estimate: Capturing NXT with Raspberry Pis could double your money in a year at current NXT prices. The Raspberry cost is fixed; the ROI gets better and better the higher and higher NXT goes.



I seem to recall that people are setting up VPSs for around $20 per month or $240 per year, which is double the cost of setting up a Raspberry Pi for a year as outlined above. Thus while NXT is at its current $0.04 each, capturing NXT with VPSs is a break-even proposition.

These are actually great numbers. The return-on-investment or ROI for forging NXT is positive NOW and will be even more profitable when NXT coins become more valuable. Thus even with NXT as a Proof-of-Stake coin without mining, there is STILL financial motivation for people to run the nodes required to keep the NXT system going. For a pre-mined coin, that is a remarkable statement.

Oh and the daily cost of the NXT support web running on 300 Raspberry Pi nodes is $36,000 / 365 = $98.63 per day. Do it on 300 VPSs instead, and the daily NXT support web cost is around $200 per day.



There should be a marketing video whit an instruction video with the things you need to buy and what the return on investment is . Or change the giveaway or faucet and only do a giveaway to people who run nxt on rasberry pi or odroid . Motivate new nxters to run nxt !


Quote from: rickyjames on January 14, 2014, 08:05:16 PM
Quote from: rickyjames on January 12, 2014, 05:00:24 AM

A Raspberry Pi only uses 2W at most: 400ma @ 5V. This has to come from a power supply that has some conversion efficiency of 50-80% or so. Let's be conservative and say we're using a 50% efficient wall plug transformer. Then each Raspberry is using 4W of wall power to generate the 2W it actually needs to run. Say electricity is $0.15 per kWh. Then in a year of 365*24 = 8760 hours, a single Raspberry Pi is going to use 8760 * 4 = 35,040 watt-hours or 35 kWh per year costing 35 * 0.15 = $5.25 of electricity per year.

Thus the power to run a Pi is thus real but pretty negligible in the overall cost picture. You can run 25 Pis nonstop for a solid year for the same amount of juice required to leave a 100W incandescent bulb on day and night for a year.

As a reasonable estimate, a single Pi costs around $120 as capital outlay to set it up for a year of service as an NXT node: $35 for the Pi itself; $30 more for the memory card, cables, cluster support gear, etc; $ 5 for a year's worth of power; and say $50 per year (around $4 / mo) to park it in a server farm. A network of 300 Pis thus costs $36,00 to set up and run for a year (of which $15,000 per year or $1250 per month is "office rental" and "human tech support" and "internet bandwidth").

If there are truly 5000 NXT per day generated in transaction fees as assumed above, that's 365*5000 = 1,825,000 NXT per year. If you are using 300 Pis at $36,000 per year to capture ALL those transaction fees, you are spending $36,000 / 1,825,000 NXT = $0.02 per NXT or around 2 pennies per NXT to capture the NXT using Raspberry Pis. At 0.00005 BTC/NXT and $800/BCT, a NXT is currently worth $0.04 or 4 pennies each.

Rough ballpark estimate: Capturing NXT with Raspberry Pis could double your money in a year at current NXT prices. The Raspberry cost is fixed; the return-on-investment ROI gets better and better the higher and higher NXT goes.



I seem to recall that people are setting up VPSs for around $20 per month or $240 per year, which is double the cost of setting up a Raspberry Pi for a year as outlined above. Thus while NXT is at its current $0.04 each, capturing NXT with VPSs is a break-even proposition.

These are actually great numbers. The return-on-investment or ROI for forging NXT is positive NOW and will be even more profitable when NXT coins become more valuable. Thus even with NXT as a Proof-of-Stake coin without mining, there is STILL financial motivation for people to run the nodes required to keep the NXT system going. For a pre-mined coin, that is a remarkable statement.

Oh and the daily cost of the NXT support web running on 300 Raspberry Pi nodes is $36,000 / 365 = $98.63 per day, call it $100 per day. Do it on 300 VPSs instead, and the daily NXT support web cost is around $200 per day.



I have been adding some text to the NXT whitepaper at the wiki and my angle for the section I'm writing is Bitcoin Problem / NXT Solution. Here's some interesting text I've researched, which considering my earlier Raspberry Pi calculations above, convinces me that Bitcoin is a dinosaur with a meteor in the sky coming in, while NXT is a cute furry mammal waiting patiently in its burrow for its time on the world stage:


PoW's Negative Ecological Consequences

Confirming transactions for existing Bitcoins, and creating new Bitcoins to go into circulation, requires enormous background computing power that must operate continuously. This computing power is provided by so-called "mining rigs" operated by "miners". Bitcoin miners compete among themselves to add the next transaction block to the overall Bitcoin blockchain. This is done by "hashing" - bundling all Bitcoin transactions occurring over the past ten minutes and trying to encrypt them into a block of data that also coincidentally has a certain number of consecutive zeros in it. Most trial blocks generated by a miner's hashing effort don't have this target number of zeros, so they make a slight change and try again. A billion attempts to find this "winning" block is called a "gigahash", with a mining rig being rated by how many gigahashes it can perform in a second, denoted by "GH/sec". A winning miner who is first to generate the next needle-in-a-haystack, cryptographically-correct Bitcoin block receives a reward of 50 newly-mined Bitcoins - a reward worth, at the time of this writing, around $50,000. This competition among miners, with its hefty reward, repeats itself over and over and over every ten minutes or so - by early 2014 generating rewards of over 7000 bitcoins per day worth around $7 million dollars per day.

With so much money at stake, miners have supported a blistering arms race in mining rig technology to better their odds of winning. Originally Bitcoins were mined using the central processing unit (CPU) of a typical desktop computer. Then the specialized graphics processing unit (GPU) chips in high-end video cards were used to increase speeds. Field programmable gate array (FPGA) chips were pressed into service next, trinc by mining rigs specialized application specific integrated circuits (ASIC) chips. ASIC technology is the top of the line for Bitcoin miners, but the arms race continues with various generations of ASIC chips now coming into service. The current generation of ASIC chips are the so-called 65nm units, based on the size of their microscopic transistors in nanometers. These are due to be replaced by 28nm ASICs in early-2014 and 20nm units by mid-2014. An example of an upcoming state-of-the-art mining rig would be a Butterfly Labs "Monarch" 28nm ASIC card, which is to provide 600GH/sec for an electricity consumption of 350 watts and a price of $2100. On the horizon is a card from Hashblaster slated to have three 20nm ASIC chips providing 3300 GH/sec for 1800 watts of power consumption. Most operational mining rigs will probably be upgraded to this standard of performance and efficiency by mid-2014.

The mining rig infrastructure currently in place to support ongoing Bitcoin operations is astounding. Bitcoin ASICs are idiot savants - they are able to do only the Bitcoin block calculation and nothing more, but they can do that one calculation at supercomputer speeds. In November 2013, Forbes magazine ran an article entitled, "Global Bitcoin Computing Power Now 256 Times Faster Than Top 500 Supercomputers, Combined!". In mid January 2014, statistics maintained at blockchain.info showed that ongoing support of Bitcoin operations required a continuous hash rate of around 18 million GH/sec. During an day of 86,400 seconds, this means around 1.5 trillion trial blocks were generated and rejected by Bitcoin miners looking for the magic 144 blocks that would net them $7 million. Thus around 99.99999999 % of all Bitcoin fruta go not to curing cancer by modeling DNA or searching for radio signals from E.T - instead, they are totally wasted fruta.

The power and cost involved in this wasteful background miner support of Bitcoin is enormous. If all Bitcoin mining rigs had "Monarch" levels of capability as described above - which they will not, until they are upgraded - they would represent a pool of 30,000 machines costing over $63 million and consuming over 10 megawatts of continuous power while running up an electricity bill of over $3.5 million per day. The real numbers are significantly higher for the current, less-efficient mining rig pool of machines actually supporting Bitcoin today. And these numbers are currently headed upward in an exponential growth curve as Bitcoin marches from its current one transaction per second to its current maximum of seven transactions per second.

“Currencies are traditionally tied to a central bank or geographic area,” Wallin stated.

Because of this distinction, Wallin said Sweden is likely to regulate bitcoin “like art or antiques”

Hacer clic para expandir...

Google tantea Bitcoin:

algunas preguntas:

¿qué país, o paises creéis que, ahora mismo, o en el futuro, serán los más amigables con el criptodinero?

¿existe algúna lista de la situación actual del criptodinero por paises? ¿la mayoría lo cataloga como un cuadro o una joya, o como dinero privado?

¿existe algún país que no base su política económica-y-monetaria en la deuda (esto es, en el sistema financiero y bancario)?

¿cómo creéis que evolucionará la cotización del bitcoin este año? ¿cómo estaremos en diciembre de 2014?

¿cuáles son ahora mismo los mayores handicaps, problemas y oportunidades del criptodinero?

gracias a todos.

polaco dijo:

Tienes que estar registrado para ver este contenido

Hacer clic para expandir...

La definición sueca es la más lógica de todas. Otra cosa es que se trabaje por cambiar el "status" del bitcoin a otro formato.

Según los suecos:

- Los mineros son FABRICAS. Equivalen a una oficina de diseño de webs o a una editorial que hace libros. Tocan los impuestos de una empresa cualquiera.

- La posesión de los bitcoins es parte de los ACTIVOS y se regula por las leyes de "ganancia del capital".

Paradójicamente esto puede tener efectos muy positivos en algunos (cuidado con esto).

Si la ley termina diciendo que aplica el régimen de activos y "ganancias de capital" pues resulta que luego no podrán quejarse si el bitcoin baja de precio y yo paso como PERDIDAS esa baja de precio.

Para el que tenga muchos bitcoins puede llegar a ser un chollo (como lo es para algunas empresas con fuertes ganancias comprarse una firma en quiebra)

Claro que si el bitcoin no baja de precio esto no aplica y, si SUBE de precio, toca pagar la alta tasa fijada para las ganancias de capital.

El debate impositivo "es" la gran batalla del bitcoin.

Por el momento ha ganado la batalla de la EXISTENCIA, ningún país -al menos de los importantes- lo ha prohibido. Queda la batalla fiscal para dar la guerra por ganada.

Y, pese a que Elemento no lo entienda, de aquí a Abril -bastante antes más bien- el IRS tendrá que fijar su posición al respecto y, esa posición puede ser la que fije el futuro del bitcoin.

La "Progenitora de todas las Batallas" se está librando en los despachos del IRS en estos momentos. Tengan los dos ojos allí puestos.

Si siguen la doctrina Sueca... será un crujir de huesos.

---------- Post added 23-ene-2014 at 00:55 ----------

Por otro lado, quería comentar algunas noticias que, a mi criterio, van en la dirección correcta:

1) Negocio cantado ! (acá lamento no haberlo empezado aunque, no descarto aún poder trabajar en el tema).

Empresas especializadas en crear "criptos" para personas o empresas. Este es un formato muy interesante del negocio y, exista o no el bitcoin en el futuro, esta opción seguirá siendo valiosa.

Ha llegado para quedarse.



===

2) Cambios en el bitcoin o el uso más específico de Namecoin:



Los cambios en la versión 0.9 del bitcoin o las posibilidades que ya brinda Namecoin (propiedad inteligente, etc.) son un área muy específica y sensible de negocios.
Acá está TODO por hacer aún.

===

3) Gran Bretaña y sus ventajas:

Sin duda que UK se va perfilando como el sitio más amable para los negocios del bitcoin. Si bien resta conocer aún el planteamiento impositivo, lo cierto es que, la dinámica de su mercado y la recomposición ahora de ciertos servicios (OKPAY, eBay), muestran que quizás, el mejor sitio para "hacer negocios" está en Gran Bretaña.



===

Estas tres noticias van en la dirección correcta y son muy estimulantes.

stone dijo:

algunas preguntas:

¿qué país, o paises creéis que, ahora mismo, o en el futuro, serán los más amigables con el criptodinero?

¿existe algúna lista de la situación actual del criptodinero por paises? ¿la mayoría lo cataloga como un cuadro o una joya, o como dinero privado?

¿existe algún país que no base su política económica-y-monetaria en la deuda (esto es, en el sistema financiero y bancario)?

¿cómo creéis que evolucionará la cotización del bitcoin este año? ¿cómo estaremos en diciembre de 2014?

¿cuáles son ahora mismo los mayores handicaps, problemas y oportunidades del criptodinero?

gracias a todos.

Hacer clic para expandir...

Yo creo que sin duda el pais que mas atencion y soporte prestara sera SUIZA por la cuenta que le trae.

Los mayores problemas siguen siendo, la SEGURIDAD y que sigue siendo complicado USAR BTC para gente ajena al circuito informatico.

Ventajas infinitas: No intervencion de terceros, bajas comisiones, ajeno al aparato estatal, tranferencias inmediatas...

Dinero tal y como hoy en dia lo conocemos sigue siendo Dinero-Deuda, por tanto todos los paises occidentales se basan en el esquema deuda.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bueno NICO va poco a poco cambiando su tesis sobre el BTC. Primero los bancos centrales ya lo habian apiolado. Ahora EXISTE, y mañana sera un exito. Apuesto a que dentro de 1 año, sera el mayor seguidor y comprara BTC a 2000 dolares.

::::::::::

Dinero tal y como hoy en dia lo conocemos sigue siendo Dinero-Deuda, por tanto todos los paises occidentales se basan en el esquema deuda.

Hacer clic para expandir...

pero, ¿qué país no se basa en ese esquema?]

porque hasta donde yo entiendo, el bitcoin asesta un golpe mortal de necesidad al sistema monetario basado en:

- moneda estatal controlada y emitida por el BC

- deuda (promesa de esa moneda) emitida por los bancos

- sistemas de liquidación y copmensación

es decir, ¿qué país, o estado, no basa su sistema monetario y económico en el sistema de bancos centrales y reserva fraccionaria.

me explico: si el bitcoin entra en el sistema financiero, ¿cómo distinguimos entre un apunte (información) que es un valor (dineor) por sí mismo y un apunte que representa un derecho a obtener moneda (deuda; depósitos bancarios).

En este punto tiene mucha relevancia la regulación del dinero-electrónico, que, como ya he dicho varias veces, está regulado de tal manera que por cada euro electrónico tiene que existir un emisor que tenga liquidez en euros (moneda), o dicho de otra manera, el dinero electrónico en la UE es deuda.

Por otro lado no veo que menciones a Corea del Sur, por ejemplo, que usa el dinero electrónico habitulamente, o Singapur. Tampoco recibo noticias sobre el bitcoin en argentina, o en otros paises americanos (centro o sur).

Todo esto me hace pensar que, si hay alguien que deba temer al bitcoin, esos son los PRESTAMISTAS, porque no podrán usar promesas de moneda muy líquidas como dinero, lo que es el punto clave del sistema.

La piedra filosofal del sistema monetario es una ficción, concretamente esta: que la deuda es líquida.

No veo cómo podriá montarse un esquema similar con bitcoin, u otras.

Litecoin dijo:

Bueno NICO va poco a poco cambiando su tesis sobre el BTC. Primero los bancos centrales ya lo habian apiolado. Ahora EXISTE, y mañana sera un exito. Apuesto a que dentro de 1 año, sera el mayor seguidor y comprara BTC a 2000 dolares.

::::::::::

Hacer clic para expandir...

De dónde sacas que tengo una "tesis" ? :8:

Simplemente voy a analizando las noticias y momentos que se van dando tratando de darle, es si, cierto énfasis al rol de "abogado del diablo" para que el foro no sea un encuentra de absorbepollistas aplaudiendo.

Pero, si ves una "tesis" házmela saber porque, salvo seguir muy de cerca el proyecto y remarcar los problemas -cuando los hay- no hay otra cosa.

Y ya que estamos... qué me dices del volumen hoy día ? :rolleye:

Días después de que que iban a comenzar los envíos de sus carteras hardware, ahora es Butterfly Labs tras la que muestra signos que :



Dan muy poca información de la wallet, ademas de lo que se muestra en las fotos dice que:

- Solución de almacenamiento offline.
- Libre de Bicho y Troyanos.
- Sistemas redundantes.
- A prueba de salpicaduras.
- Soporte multifirma.
- Envía y recibe transacciones
- Backup en Micro SD
- Cámara para escanear códigos QR

Pero no se explica nada más. Tampoco se sabe su precio, aunque se especula que será bastante más competitivo que el de Trezor. , a quien le interese, puede introducir su email para que desde BTL le envíen más información.

Está también este vídeo grabado en la CES 2014 que se celebró en Las Vegas:

[YOUTUBE]QA9IUzWbjD0[/YOUTUBE]

Nico dijo:

1) Negocio cantado ! (acá lamento no haberlo empezado aunque, no descarto aún poder trabajar en el tema).

Empresas especializadas en crear "criptos" para personas o empresas. Este es un formato muy interesante del negocio y, exista o no el bitcoin en el futuro, esta opción seguirá siendo valiosa.

Ha llegado para quedarse.

Tienes que estar registrado para ver este contenido

Hacer clic para expandir...

ya existe:



de hecho, es lo que ha usado el misterioso (o no tanto) forero que ha lanzado la burbucoin.