*Tema mítico* : Plata: --- Hilo Oficial (VI)

bueno hace tiempo este hilo estaba mas movido hablando de operaciones y tal hoy en dia solo publicamos noticias, y asi humedecer nuestros sueños, pero nada mas.
se echa en falta a muchos veteranos que aportaban muy buenos puntos de vista, yo en especial echo en falta es a carloszorro, del que aprendi la mayoria de lo que se, entre otros, pero aportaba muy buenas cosas.

PD: zain todas la tuberias terminan en jpmorgan. adptando la frase de todos los caminos llevan a roma. XD

PD2: ya dije que cerre mi operacion de cortos porque si que dio un repunte pasando los 14.55$ y al estarse casi un dia coqueteando sin dan sintomas de agotamiento me parecio que se estaba consoliadndo en esa resistencia paara romperla, que es lo que hizo pero hay estaban un monton de cortos esperando para tumbarla, luego una vez ya capada la escapada mucha "gente" se devio asustar y cerrar largos o apuntarse con mas cortos.
 


the silver market was thrown into disarray on Thursday after the LBMA Silver Price was set 84 cents below the spot and futures price this morning.
The LBMA Silver Price – the crucial daily benchmark used by producers and traders around the world to settle silver products and derivatives contracts – was set at $13.58 per ounce.

At the time of the auction, which begins at 12 noon London time, the spot price was at $14.42 per ounce while the futures price on the CME was at $14.415, leaving a number of market participants extremely confused as to what has peine.

“Unfortunately, it is not [a mistake],” Ole Hansen, head of commodity strategy for Saxo Bank, told FastMarkets. “This could be the end of the fix. It took 14 minutes to find a fix – they obviously found a fix way off of the market.”
The difference between the two was nearly six percent but the benchmark cannot be changed, a person familiar with proceedings told FastMarkets.

Another source also suggested that the continued existence of the fix has been put in jeopardy by the huge discrepancy in today’s price, adding that many producers – who still use the price as their daily reference – may have lost significant amounts of money if any contracts have been settled according to the fix.

“A huge number of contracts are still settled on that price,” another said. “This will no doubt cause significant problems.”

The matter is being investigated internally, FastMarkets understands, so CME has no official comment at this time.

This is how the market reacted to this clear manipulation...

No saben ni que precio ponerle a la plata en el "nuevo fixing mas transparente que el anterior"... 😀
 
totalmente deacuerdo una cosa es lo que se tiene en la bolsa para "jugar" y otra lo real que tenemos y podemos tocar que es el autentico seguro de vida.
 




No saben ni que precio ponerle a la plata en el "nuevo fixing mas transparente que el anterior"... 😀

Lo que si que saben es sacar fisico del COMEX, el viernes sacaron casi 8 millones de onzas de plata:


El 20% del registered... la ratio plata-papel debe estar disparandose 😉

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Para 2016 se espera que aumente el deficit de plata, ya que esperan una disminucion del 5% en la produccion y un aumento de la demanda en todos los sectores siguiendo la tendencia de los ultimos años (joyeria, industrial y monetario).
 
Existe algo así como el SGE en China con la plata verdad? Esto tiene pinta de explotar este año. No se sostiene más.
 
Existe algo así como el SGE en China con la plata verdad? Esto tiene pinta de explotar este año. No se sostiene más.
A mi me extrañaria mucho que aguante este año. Parece que los miebros de fixing han dejado de confiar unos en otros (no saben que precio ponerle, pero si saben sacarla fuera...)


Bullions listed on the Exchange include gold (Au), silver (Ag), platinum (Pt), and other precious metals as approved by the PBC.

No se dejan nada...
 
Última edición:
Interesante articulo con referencia a los ultimos post:



The turnover or physical movement of metal brought into or taken out of the COMEX silver warehouses literally exploded over the last three weeks, as nearly 22 million ounces were moved and total inventories fell 4.5 million ounces, to 156.9 million ounces. I can recall only a few weeks over the past five years where more silver was physically moved. Please remember that I am speaking of physical movement and not paper work changes of metal being reclassified between the registered and eligible COMEX categories, on which so much is written. Physical turnover is just that – metal taken from warehouses and put on trucks and metal taken off trucks and put into the COMEX warehouses.

The amounts of physical silver being shuffled into and out from the various COMEX silver warehouses is enormous, equally 50% and more of world total mine production at times. I continue to be flabbergasted that the COMEX silver warehouse movement is completely overlooked in the analytical community despite this movement being so large, persistent and easy to verify.

For five years, I have ranted and raved about the frantic turnover and physical movement of the COMEX silver inventories. Most importantly, this frantic physical inventory movement is unique to silver and no other commodity. Compared to any other commodity, the turnover is unusual because there is so much less silver in the world than there was 20, 30 or 60 years ago. What little silver we have left in the world is spinning in and out of the COMEX warehouses like there is no tomorrow. My conclusion is that it represents extreme tightness in the wholesale physical silver market. Physical tightness and shortage are not different, except in degree.

Of the 40 to 50 billion ounces of silver mined throughout history, the total visible world inventory of 1,000 ounce bars is less than one billion ounces. Further, we know the reason we have such a small amount of silver remaining compared to what was produced throughout history – because the vast bulk was consumed industrially over the past 50 or 100 years. That’s why we have more gold in the world than silver, despite much larger production in silver than in gold

Over the past five years, world visible silver inventories have remained flat to lower, even though the data reflected that true total inventories were no longer being depleted. This fits in nicely with my premise that JPMorgan has been accumulating massive amounts of physical silver and shielding it from view.

Total COMEX silver inventories hit their lowest level in three years, at under 155.4 million ounces recently. That’s down by nearly 30 million ounces from last year and flies in the face of the widespread belief in a silver surplus. Not only are visible silver inventories actually decreasing, the inventories are being frantically turned over. The price of silver remains stuck at some impossible-to-justify depressed level, yet physical demand has caused its turnover to explode. I don’t think there could be more compelling proof of price manipulation and a skyrocketing price to come. The surplus in crude oil is as real as rain and the price is mostly reflective of the physical glut in oil. But the “surplus” in silver is only a surplus of COMEX futures contracts and not of real metal. The evidence in silver points to a growing physical tightness based upon the documented COMEX physical turnover and visible inventories shrinking instead of growing. If that’s not an invitation to buy and hold silver, then I don’t know what is.

January 28, 2016

Esto lo escribio el jueves 28, flipando que de que tras años observando los movimientos del COMEX, en las ultimas tres semanas se hayan disparado a 22 millones de onzas los movimientos de entrada y salida de fisico. Le faltaba el dato del viernes, que sacaron casi 8 millones del fisico disponible.

Algo se esta cociendo y no creo que tardemos en tener noticias. Por ahora lo unico claro es que hay disparidad en la creacion de precio que puede haber hecho perder mucho dinero a las mineras que hayan fijado como referencia un precio 80cts mas bajo que el finalmente valido. Como surja una alternativa mas seria donde descubrir el precio, sera la utilizada como referencia y donde ira el oro salvo que otrs mercados paguen premium sobre el mercado que lo fije.

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Como muestra de lo dicho antes, aqui un articulo de la Perthmint Australiana defecandose en el nuevo fixing. Normal que la Perthmint este haciendo su propio mercado de de referencia denominado en dolares australianos ya que posiblemente consigan mejores precios que los del COMEX.



Esta tendencia a vender el fisico orientandose por otro mercado que ofrezca mejores precios vaciara de fisico el COMEX cuando llegue el momento y parece que se estan adelantenado a ella...
 
Última edición:
La mineras empiezan a reducir produccion:

La produccion de Endeavour Silver Corp se reducira un 25% en 2016. Es una minera que produce principalmente plata. Las mineras de metales basicos que producen plata de forma secundaria, estan en una situacion aun mas delicada ya que los precios de los metales basicos han bajado mas que los preciosos y tendran que seguir los mismos pasos y reducir la produccion.

Lo dicho, 2016 va a ser artefacto peligroso: aumento de la demanda + disminucion de la produccion + reduccion de stocks 😉

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Barkleys bank (market maker en la LBMA) deja el fixing y su seccion de metales preciosos.

Ardilla abandonando el barco antes de que se hunda?
 
Última edición:
Aqui las quejas del mayor productor mundial de plata respecto al Silver Fixing:



The world’s largest producer of silver, KGHM, has weighed in on last week’s hugely controversial silver price benchmark, which was set some six percent below the prevailing spot price on Thursday.

The LBMA Silver Price – the crucial daily benchmark used by producers and traders around the world to settle silver products and derivatives contracts – was set at $13.58 per ounce on January 28. This was 84 cents below the spot and futures price at the time. Since this has implications for any transactions based on the benchmark, there is a danger that the credibility of the process will be damaged and that users will seek other prices against which to do business, sources said.

KGHM, one of the largest producers of copper and the single largest producer of silver in the world, called the difference between the prices “very alarming” and called on the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) to provide an explanation.

“The large discrepancy between the spot price and the fix is very alarming to us especially that it peine twice in a row,” KGHM head of market risk Grzegorz Laskowski told FastMarkets. “I think the LBMA needs to make every effort to explain why it peine and needs to help to develop a system that would help to avoid these kind of situations in the future,” he added.

The ‘fix’ or ‘benchmark’, as it is now known, is still the global benchmark reference price used by central banks, miners, refiners, jewellers and the surrounding financial industry to settle silver-based contracts. While some traders continue to use the 24-hourly traded spot price, larger players prefer the snapshot-style daily benchmark to settle bulkier contracts on a traditionally over-the-counter (OTC) market.

The price is set every day by five participants – HSBC, JPMorgan Chase Bank, The Bank of Nova Scotia, Toronto Dominion Bank and UBS – using a system run by CME and Thomson Reuters.

KGHM produced 40.4 million ounces (1,256 tonnes) of silver in 2014, according to The Silver Institute’s annual report.

Lo dicho: si en un futuro hay mercados que ofrezcan mejores precios que los del LBMA, seran la referencia para quien quiera vender (mineras). Los que ofrezcan precios mas bajos sufriran el arbitraje y se quedaran sin fisico ya que sera rentable sacarlo de alli para venderlo en otro mercado a mejor precio.

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Aqui un estudio sobre mineria de Ernst & Young sobre mineria a finales de 2014 que afirma que el 68% de las minas no son rentables (ahora con la bajada de precios supongo que el porcentaje actualmente llegara al 90%):

http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/EY-opportunities-to-enhance-capital-productivity/$FILE/EY-opportunities-to-enhance-capital-productivity.pdf
 
Última edición:
Sigamos con el culebron del Silver fixing:


La posicion oficial del CME es que todo funciona bien y que las quejas se dirijan a Thomson Reuters que es el otro encargado del funcionamiento de la plataforma electronica donde se forma el precio. Thomson Reuters dice que es "inapropiado" realizar comentarios al respecto ya que todo funciona de maravilla. Tambien se abstiene de hacer declaraciones la Financial Conduct Authority (el supervisor de todo el asunto).


La CME envio el siguiente email a quienes se quejaron y lavandose las manos:

“The platform worked as it should, in fact perfectly. It’s as good as the orders the participants enter. If you are a client of a ‘participant’ I guess you should direct this question at them. If you want individual flexibility, become a participant.”

Traduccion: los participantes consiguen mejor precio que el resto pero todo funciona bien porque sus ordenes entran. Solo tienes que ser "participant":

A participant has to be a Full Member (Ordinary or Market Making) of the LBMA. The participant also needs to have a Orate London Clearing account. Applicants to be a Full LBMA Member must demonstrate that they actively trade spot, options or forwards in the London Bullion Market, pass KYC procedures and declare conformance with the Non-Investment Products Code.

Algo al alcance de cualquiera... 😀

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Otras criticas al fixing:



Brad Yates, head of trading at Elemetal Capital LLC, which trades silver and offers precious metal risk management services, said by phone from Dallas. “When they endorsed it and it became the official print, the benchmark immediately lost credibility. We had two clients shift business away from pricing on the fix to live pricing.”

according to Simon Grenfell, global co-head of commodities at Natixis SA, an LBMA member bank which offers silver trading and risk management services.
“The new silver price setting mechanism appears broken,” Grenfell, said in an e-mailed statement. “It is clearly an issue that the regulator should be looking at.”



The journey that started with false claims that the old fixing methodology was flawed only to be replaced by an IOSCO compliant model which was technically advanced, manipulation-resistant, all engaging and transparent solution … which does not work. Ten times in the last six months the silver price has been “fixed” outside the trading range of the spot price for that day which is nonsensical. Laughably last Thursday silver traded between 14:40 and 14.10 in the spot markets yet “fixed” at $13.58. Fridays benchmark price was little better. A benchmark or reference price it is not.

The LBMA silver price is meant to represent the price at which the optimal buying and selling volumes would be met and to provide a benchmark against which thousands of trades between producers, consumers, jewellers, industrials, speculators etc etc would settle. In short - the so called LBMA silver price does not come close to reflecting reality - and it is clearly vulnerable to manipulation - it is therefore effectively invalid. The key question is WHY is it failing … and why is the price administrator (CME & Thomson Reuters) saying nothing and doing less.





“The system is broken,” said one precious metals dealer. “In the old days, if it was out of line, someone would have bought the fix [now known as the LBMA Silver Price] and then sold the futures. It’s a joke — that’s all I know.”


....

A bullion banker agreed.

“People are too scared to change their orders in the middle of the process so it got stuck,” the banker said. “In the old days, banks would step in and take positions in order to balance the process. No-one dares do that anymore, as then they have to answer to compliance etc.”

Lo dicho anteriormente de la boca de un Bullion Banker: los participantes no confian los unos de los otros y nadie parece dispuesto a salvar el fixing ya que supondria responder con las propias reservas para poder cumplir

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Esto ya es imparable....

---------- Post added 04-feb-2016 at 19:48 ----------




IDO, ya empieza a entrar pasta en mi cartera desde tu simulador; cuando cierre este largo, ya te pasaré tu parte por dejarme tu plataforma.

Yo no cantaria victoria aun viendo la ultima grafica mejor puesta esa linea,
y el corto del simulador lo cerre al dia siguiente que paso los 14.65$.

por otro lado seria lo suyo ya ir subinedo, pero como esta todo manipulado pa fiarse.
 
Parece que no van a tener mas remedio que volver a reformar el fixing (el "nuevo silver fixing mas transparente que el anterior" apenas a durado un anyo en funcionamiento...):



...

Two “extraordinary” meetings have been held since Jan. 28 in order to address concerns over the benchmark, and one of the main changes includes an intervention protocol that wasn’t there before. Since Jan. 29, the Oversight Committee gave CME and Thomson Reuters the green light to intervene and “suspend an auction if they believe the integrity of the auction or participants is threatened,” the press release said.

Although no precise date is mentioned, the three organizations intend to present details of new measures – including potentially introducing centralized clearing of all auction trades – to be discussed at the “earliest opportunity.”

Other potential changes, the statement continued, include: “a blind auction, where only prices and not volumes are disclosed to participants until after the auction has closed; increasing the settlement tolerance where necessary to maintain the integrity of the auction; change the structure for sharing the differential to encourage full participation; and a package of measures to increase participation in the benchmark process and to encourage non-banks’ participation.”


...

Lo dicho: el COMEX se va a tener que adaptar a la nueva situacion creada por la apertura del SGE y competir en precios para que las mineras fijen sus precios con la referencia del COMEX y que ese precio sea accesible a aquellos participantes que reclamen fisico.

Las mineras han mostrado su descontento con el fixing abiertamente ya que en breve van a tener una alternativa que les permitira negociar los precios alli donde mas les convenga.

Es un cambio en las reglas de juego al que el COMEX se tiene que adaptar y lo remarcado en zain en el texto deja claro por donde van los tiros: el precio se formara en aquel mercado que sea capaz de integrar a todos los actores en la misma plataforma (Bancos, mineras, cecas, inversores particulares...) siguendo el modelo que propone el SGE.

A partir de ese momento, manipular a la baja el mercado supondra quedarse sin fisico procedente de las mineras y que el clearing del mercado asuma con sus propias reservas el arbitraje derivado de ofrecer precios mas bajos que otros mercados. Las medidas que estan tomando parece que van en esta direccion...

Mientras arreglan el problema, avisan que se cerrara el mercado si peligra su "integridad de sus participantes"


Silver price auctions that are deemed to ‘threaten’ the ‘integrity’ of the process or its participating members will be suspended, Thomson Reuters and CME Group announced in a joint statement trinc a meeting of the LBMA Silver Price Oversight Committee.

Supongo que tendran que aclarar primero quien responde con su fisico en el clearing house en caso de que se vuelva a dar la situacion.
 
Última edición:
El primer gráfico está mal y sugiere que ya ha roto tendencia.
El segundo gráfico está bien y el valor sigue cayendo, por lo que de momento no hay motivos para ponerse largos.


Hablando de graficos, puede alguna buena alma, poner el grafico de la plata de super largo plazo que se aprecie perfectamente esa super taza de largo plazo,,,,, a ver como vamos con el asa de la taza ...
 
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Como bien habéis puesto en la gráfica de arriba aún no se ha decidido nada. Todo castillo de fuegos artificiales tiene una traca final y creo que aún la tenemos que ver...
 
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Zain hoy no te desates, espero que no te bajes de 32$, yo me bajaré antes, tengo menos egsss...😀😀

Disfrutemos el día todos, que estubimos mucho tiempo en la oscuridad, se acabo rescatar el hilo de las cabernas..😀

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